< Dominique Fishback is the actress with a thousand faces

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BRITTANY LUSE, HOST:

You're listening to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR. I'm Brittany Luse.

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LUSE: Actress Dominique Fishback's star is on the rise. She's a lead in the new film "Transformers: Rise Of The Beasts," but she's somewhat of a transformer herself because this girl has range. In this blockbuster, she plays a bookish intern, but she's also portrayed a sex worker, a devoted revolutionary and a murderous stalker. No matter what role she's playing, Dominique brings an authenticity and a depth to her performances that always has me excited to see what she'll do next. Today, we get to know the actress with a thousand faces. And just a warning - this episode contains mentions of violence depicted on screen.

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LUSE: Dominique, welcome to IT'S BEEN A MINUTE.

DOMINIQUE FISHBACK: Thank you so much.

LUSE: Oh, my gosh. We are so happy to have you. OK, so I got to ask you, since you're starring in the new "Transformers" movie, what kind of transformer do you see yourself as? Are you more of an Autobot, a Decepticon or a Maximal?

FISHBACK: Maybe I'm more of a Maximal. Just being connected to the earth is really important to me. Yeah - and plus, I don't have a license, so driving would not be my thing.

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LUSE: You sound like a real New Yorker, which you are, which we'll get to. So you're starring in one of the biggest summer blockbusters this year, but you really are an actor's actor, in that you make idiosyncratic choices in what projects you take on. Like, I think with many actors, you know, you can see that they have a type of character that people associate with them. Like, if you want a matriarch, you're going to call Loretta Devine. Sheryl Lee Ralph is always going to give you that tough love, like on "Abbott Elementary" or "Sister Act 2." And Issa Rae - you know, so many people - you think Issa Rae, you think awkward black girl because of her YouTube series. But it's harder to pin down a unifying type for you. You have one of the most eclectic IMDb pages in Hollywood. What's important to you in choosing your roles?

FISHBACK: Wow. Thank you so much. You know, I try to go based off of my inner child. She's the one who wanted to act before she knew about critics, before there was the social media. Even in high school, I won prom queen. I was valedictorian. I was MVP on my basketball team, and I got into theater. So I always knew that those movies had people in a box and a clique. And I never fit in a clique, so I knew that, in my career, I didn't want to do that either.

So I have this tag that I've been using since about 2016, '17, called the heroine with a thousand faces. That's my little bio on Instagram because I wanted people to know that don't - you know, don't get used to one thing. And it doesn't throw you. It just excites you.

LUSE: Hmm. Mmm. I like that - heroine with a thousand faces. You know, something that we noticed when we were preparing to talk to you that does unite all your characters is that all your characters have moments where they deeply access their vulnerability on screen. Would you consider yourself a deeply vulnerable person?

FISHBACK: That's such a great question. I have chills. I think so because - well, I'll be very honest. I met someone last year that - their presence required that I be really, really vulnerable. I always thought I was vulnerable because I'm vulnerable on screen. And I'm vulnerable on stage, and I'm vulnerable with my poetry. I think I was walking around the earth thinking I was vulnerable. But when it came to intimacy and intimate relationships, one-on-one, with somebody of the opposite sex, if I - like, I was so nervous to tell this man that I liked him. Like, not even...

LUSE: (Laughter).

FISHBACK: ...Not even I'm in love with you. It was, like, like, and my heart was like (clapping). My throat was closing up. I said, what is happening? So that's why I said, oh, man, I'm not as vulnerable as I thought. And then he wanted to - like, he always wanted to talk. Like, if I had an issue, he was like, all right, I'm going to come over. We're going to talk about it. And I'm like, no - like, can I call you tomorrow? And I was like, Dominique, you talk about wanting vulnerability, you know? Even though him and I weren't dating, it was a good test. It allowed me to see, oh, shoot, I'm not that vulnerable. I'm definitely much better now. I have no problem saying how I feel at this point. It is what it is.

LUSE: I used to say, before I met my husband, if - I would rather move away - like, literally move states before I tell somebody I like them 'cause I'm like, it's just too much (laughter). It's too much.

You know, like I said, vulnerability is there across all your characters. I wonder, how do you locate the vulnerability in a character like Dre in "Swarm," who is literally murdering people?

FISHBACK: (Laughter) Yeah. I read this book called "Auditioning On Camera" by Joseph Hacker, and he talks about how you don't have to riddle your characters with shortcomings. If your character is a snake, they're going to be disloyal no matter how honest you play them. If your character is a coward, they're going to run no matter how brave or honorable or courageous you play them. And so it went like that for Darlene in "The Deuce." My character is a sex worker. That's her job. She is going to be that no matter how youthful she is, no matter how intelligent she is. So I don't have to walk like a sex worker. I don't have to talk like a sex worker.

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FISHBACK: (As Darlene) I shouldn't have brought your country a** here. Go home. If you stay, you'll die.

LUSE: So it's the same in "Swarm" when you're playing Dre. And for the listeners out there, in "Swarm," Dominique plays a character named Dre who is a murderous stalker fan of a celebrity named Ni'jah.

FISHBACK: I didn't have to move like a murderer or talk like a murderer or emote or not emote like a murderer. I just had to let her exist, and she was going to be a murderer no matter what. I asked for the role, and then I was scared of the role.

LUSE: (Laughter).

FISHBACK: But after I asked for it and I got it, I was like, oh, shoot. I usually journal as all of my characters, but I knew that I wouldn't be able to journal as Dre because, on the page, psychologically, I could not understand her. Everything was very surface-level responses. Ni'jah's a queen. You say you don't like Ni'jah. Like, that doesn't give me access to what's really going on inside of her.

So instead of journaling as the character, I journaled as myself. Anything in the script that made me afraid that I was judging, I journaled about it - big or small. This gave me fear because I don't like this, I don't like this. And that allowed me to be completely honest and then clear it away so that the camera wouldn't pick up Dominique being uncomfortable playing Dre. It would just be Dre - hopefully. That was the hope, you know?

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LUSE: Coming up - Dominique on learning how to be unlikeable.

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LUSE: On the thought of Dre being a murderer, there's this line of thinking that, you know, any role you take as a Black actor has to be for the betterment of Black representation - roles that are honorable, respectable, excellent. But I don't get the sense that you're concerned about that. You seem to choose roles that are, like, messier whole human beings - you know? - be it characters that are rageful, vulnerable, afraid, ambivalent. Why is playing these kinds of characters important to you?

FISHBACK: Well, first, I have to say I do care. I consider it a lot, actually. When God is good - like, I feel like, all of my roles before "Swarm," the characters were easier to like, easier to love. And I got used to that. Who doesn't love being loved or liked, right? So I enjoy that the fans enjoyed.

LUSE: Oh, and Deborah from "Judas And The Black Messiah" is just such a tender character.

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FISHBACK: (As Deborah Johnson) I feel like he never lets folks put words in his mouth. And no matter what, he doesn't get flustered or angry. I'd like to be like that someday.

So with Dre was the first opportunity where I was like, they might not like me. But I started working on myself enough to say, well, I know why I'm choosing this. And the same reason why I want to do this part - I'm sure that there's audiences that also want to see it. And there's also Black women that - you know, I want to see a character like that. You know what I'm saying?

There's this one shot in the pilot after she, you know, beats him with the salt lamp. And then she comes up, and the angle's underneath her. And the tear comes down. And the blood's on her face, and she has that bang. And it reminds me of, like, one of those 1970s horror films - the "Carries," all of that. And we haven't seen our faces, our hair, our complexion, put on those frames, in those images. That was very exciting. Even on Twitter, people were getting shirts that had that image on it.

LUSE: I had the same response to Dre going into "Swarm." I really enjoyed your performance. It was so unlike anything I had seen previously, and there was something satisfying about seeing Dre tap into all these emotions that you don't always get to see Black women characters follow to completion, like rage and anger. There's something about the way that she would not just lash out, but fully follow her anger all the way through, that I found myself not necessarily relating to, but I understood it to a certain degree.

Something else I noticed is that you often have played younger characters - be they teens or fresh-faced interns like in "Transformers" - and you play them with your whole body. Sometimes when people play - when they're in their 20s or 30s and they're playing a teenager, sometimes it's, like, a voice thing or maybe, like, kind of a carriage thing, but not a whole body thing, which is - seems to be your approach. I think you're really great at creating the bounce of being that age. Through your performances, what are you trying to get right about what it feels like to be really young?

FISHBACK: I think the main thing for me is I deeply respect teens, and I respect children. I think they're extremely wise. One thing that I know is when I was a teenager, I knew that I loved the person that I loved. I make my teenagers extremely wise. Again, I don't riddle them with things that people think they're supposed to be riddled in. I go from the inside out. What's that one line that can get me into the heart of my character? And then I move from there. It's like "The Hate U Give." One thing that she said in "The Hate U Give" that I said, OK, I understand - she said to Starr...

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FISHBACK: (As Kenya) There go that trick, Denasia. Ooh, I can't stand her a**. Man, you so lucky you go to that private school. Ain't even got to deal with hoes like that.

AMANDLA STENBERG: (As Starr) No, there's hoes...

FISHBACK: Now, on a paper, you could be like, oh, look at her. She don't care about nothing. She - but for me, I was like, well, she's jealous of Starr. Starr gets to go to a private school, and she has to go to school in the hood. But instead of being vulnerable enough to say, I wish that I can go to a private school because I would get that opportunity, and I would really love it, she has to say, I wish I could because something negative, which is not the truth. She just wishes she could. But she's too afraid to say that.

But physicality - I don't think about physicality. I just - again, it's just, like, I try to exist, and wherever my body goes is where it goes. Like, even with Dre, I didn't try to make her physically funny. I just let my body do, my eyes do, my head do whatever it wanted to do at the time. And now when I look back, I can say, oh, man, oh, that's really funny. That's physical comedy. I've always wanted to do physical comedy. I love Jim Carrey. I love Lucille Ball. And I can see that influence even though I didn't think of them when I was doing it.

LUSE: Speaking of your younger self, you're originally from East New York, Brooklyn, and in "Transformers," your character is a diehard Brooklyn girl from East New York. How did you bring Brooklyn flavor to this role? Like, how did you lean on your life experiences to make sure the role was played right?

FISHBACK: I think this was the most liberating one except for, like, the CGI - looking at things that aren't there. Like, I think it's the most liberating in that I didn't think about how to bring my Brooklyn to it. I just am. And that's the thing about having a human experience, period - whether we're worthy or deserving of something, we just are. And then Anthony is also from Brooklyn, and we were friends before this movie. It's like the idea of, like, you don't have an accent until you go back home.

LUSE: (Laughter).

FISHBACK: You know, that's like - it's similar to that. It's like, all right, my Brooklyn could come out because my spirit is literally bouncing off of Anthony's because he's also from Brooklyn. And Steven was so open to us being like that.

LUSE: I wonder, was there a moment, like, from your own life that kind of gets at - a feeling that you have where you're like, now this is the thing they're not getting in the movies. Like, this is the real stuff we need to be talking about - we need to be seeing on screen.

FISHBACK: I think in love, which I think is probably why my spirit wants to do rom-com or epic romance so bad. And I feel like there's a lot of trauma and patterns that we learn from our parents and what we've witnessed that I don't think is captured in the movies. In "Love Jones," for example, Larenz Tate's character - he don't want to tell her that, yo, I don't want you to go to New York. You know what I'm saying? He just like, nah, I'm cool. I'm real cool. And then want to be mad at her for going to New York when he could have just said it. But why didn't he say it? Did he come from a family that don't speak about their feelings? You know, I wonder if we can start tapping into, like, what is the root of what happens?

LUSE: I would love to see you in an epic romance (laughter). I would love that. Dominique, thank you so, so, so, so much. It was so great to talk with you today.

FISHBACK: Yes. Thank you, Brittany.

LUSE: Dominique's newest film, "Transformers: Rise Of The Beasts," is in theaters everywhere.

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LUSE: This episode of IT'S BEEN A MINUTE was produced by...

COREY ANTONIO ROSE, BYLINE: Corey Antonio Rose.

LUSE: Our editor is...

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LUSE: Engineering support came from...

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LUSE: We had fact-checking help from...

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LUSE: Our executive producer is...

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LUSE: All right. That's all for this episode of IT'S BEEN A MINUTE from NPR. I'm Brittany Luse. Talk soon.

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